Perhaps if I go and kill all the Gibeonites like Joshua was supposed to do, maybe God will let me back into the chair.". You might say a whole cycle of generations. He did not do anything to directly intervene. It does not matter. Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! God's correction may come a Notice verse 2 says that Saul tried to strike them down in his zeal (also means jealously or envy) for the people of Israel and Judah. You do not know. God punished Adam and Eve for their sin. Report, August 29 2022 And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD? There is no indication in II Samuel 21 that David got advice from any of his ministers about how to deal with this situation. How do other hominoids (e.g homo erectus, homo neanderthalensis, etc.) Jamieson, Fausset and Brown comments: It was a heathen practice to gibbet men with a view of appeasing the anger of the gods in seasons of famine, and the Gibeonites, who were a remnant of the Amorites, though brought to the knowledge of the true God, were not, it seems, free from this superstition. He enslaved them all, and made them wood cutters and menial laborers at the Tabernacle. The scriptures are not very definitive as to why. When we read the history of skirmishes and battles between the Gibeonites and Israelites we get a He is beyond us; it does not make any sense. There is nothing to give you any indication that God was involved in anything except the faminetrying to teach David a lesson. So, give or take, 40 to 50 years have passed. And how do I know this? They are still there. And the Lord said, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and They did not ask, "God, what should we do to these people, the Gibeonites? The Bible helps us in this way, because it is full of examples of flawed heroes of faith. 4. And these men, they need to be buried. WebSaul kills the gentile Gibeonites (2 Sam 21) & banishes mediums in preparation for Tabernacle being moved from Nob to Gibeon. They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. God affirms that the famine is punishment for Sauls massacre of the Gibeonites, who had been protected by a treaty since the Israelites first invaded the Promised Land ( Joshua 9:127 ). It is tainted.". It would have been the answer. How many died in sicknesses? & "Take heed that you be not deceived." The Gibeonites presented themselves to the invading Israelites, not as nearby neighbors, but as distant foreigners who lived in a far-off land. He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. After that, God heeded the prayer of the land. WebNow, when they heard that the Gibeonites had made a special treaty with the Israelites they got very angry. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. Berean Literal Bible Acts 13:21. That is basically how it was. And the Lord said, "There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. You are no longer fit to be king." He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. This was a long time ago. Then they went back and took Ai. Then, I am sure, he started to think about other things that were happening, and he started to make some reforms in himself. Good question. God spared them as a people, but His nation condemned them to endless servitude. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. Vote Up Please ensure your answer MEETS all our guidelines. I think he was distracted by all the cares of his office of being king. This was history now. A snare is a trap. It has got to go. What we do inherit of their sin is consequences. I do not think that King David thought through the implications of this matter very well. One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. He resolved properlynot without a lot of death, with 70,000 dead in that plague, but at least he had the repentant attitude by the time it was over. There were not very many of them left. Yes, my lord, he answered. At the time the Israelites under Joshua invaded the Promised Land of Canaan, most of the inhabitants rose up in arms against them. They haven't been put in Kish's sepulcher yet. And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." Was John the Baptist conceived via an immaculate conception? Then Gibeon was a mile or two more to the north-northwest. It seems as though he was spiritually sleepwalking through this whole thing. It says that they were Saul's sons. Think about it. He decided to let the Gibeonites dictate everything. About two years ago, Barry Watson, our lone member in Namibia, wrote me an email message in which this incident was at the heart of it. And we bear the guilt with them for that. I also want you to see how warlike Saul was. Hebrews 11 exhibits a whole chapter of men and women just like us who, despite their humanity and frequent foibles, fought the good fight of faith and were victorious in the end through the grace of God. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them. I am putting this all together from history. The Gibeonites take the young men and essentially lynch them, leaving the bodies of Sauls sons and grandsons to rot, exposed and humiliated in the presence of God at a local shrine. So, he kept his own covenant, but he did not go any further to figure out from God's law to know what should be done in this situation. He then tells David that he can't marry Michal until he brings Saul 100 Philistine foreskins, thinking that David will definitely die in this attempt. Moreover, Samuel said, "What have you done? In reading the Psalms, on the other hand, we get an idea of just how grateful he was for God's forgiveness and grace, because I believe he was aware of just what a rotten individual he really was. King David is mentioned by name as a hero of faith. Gibeon was situated very close to Gibeah the home town of Sauls family. (1) A three-year famine prompts David to seek God. Much later, King Saul ignored this covenant of peace and killed some Gibeonites. Instead, they told a story that either ignored the truth completely or, at least, shaded the truth in such a way that it was full of guile and deceit. God did not perform a miracle to end this famine after these men were executed. (Now the Gibeonites were not Israelites, but a remnant of the Amorites. There was a covenant with those people that not only Joshua and the people honored, but also God Himself honored as well. When the Gibeonites heard that the other nations were going to attack them, they sent a message to Joshua and the people, Help! They got a couple of their men, maybe elders, and got them to appear like they came along distance. He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. However, that is not the case. The Gibeonites merely asked for a mutual help pact that would guarantee not only mercy and aid from Israel, but protection from their common enemies. These curses are things like diseases that might affect genetics, and they came as the result of sin. WebTheir apostasy began with the Hivites from Gibeon, and in time, the leaven slowly spread. He says to watchbe aware, be awake, be vigilant; know what your spiritual state is. I don't know a great deal about this particular segment of those biblical people called the Hittites. Most people living in modern, Western culture better identify with flawed heroes, rather than perfect heroes. Spiritual Strongholds (Part Two): Faithful Trust. So the famine continued for another half a year. Share Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. Another group, however, argues that as God's anointed king, King Saul would conscript them into the army, and off they would go in a bloodthirsty rage against somebody else. But that conclusion is a bit too sanguine once you begin to look into that which is not said, or what is said elsewhere. Perhaps those first two, Armoni, and Mephibosheth were old enough to have participated in the event. I Samuel 14:47-48 So Saul established his sovereignty over Israel, and fought against all his enemies on every side, against Moab, against the people of Ammon, against Edom, against the kings of Zobah, and against the Philistines. A brief, but important, reference to the Gibeonites can also be found in 2 Samuel 21:1-14. The rest of the Canaanites resented the defection of the Hivites which so greatly weakened the forces for defense, and, headed by Adoni-zedek of Jerusalem, they assembled to wreak vengeance on Gibeon. How does this all connect with Ezekiel chapter 18? Guilt for sin is not hereditary. Except for verse 21, there is very little mention of God in the whole episode. It does not seem so. He was setting us an example of what we should be doing in a spiritual sense. What might he have done? DESTRUCTION AND CORRUPTION Their special, if dishonest, dealings with the leaders of Israel gained them a notoriety that most of the tribes and clans of the ancient Mid-East never attained. He just let matters continue naturally and let it rub in for another six or seven months. David didnt get the throne until Saul and Jonathon were both dead. David was anointed king many years before he took the throne. He had Saul tryin And those two are questionable. He did not perform any miracle, or any other thing to show that He was happy with the way that things turned out. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. How many wars were fought? Share So you shall not pollute the land where you are [this is very important]; for blood defiles the land, and no atonement can be made for the land, for the blood that is shed on it, except by the blood of him who shed it. Saul tried to get back his throne from God by doing what he thought was right, what he thought was zealous for God, by getting rid of the foreignersincluding the Gibeonitesthat were among them. You had to go up quite a bit. Then we have the explanations of which we just went over. Another thing that God said to do was not done. Nevertheless, he names a few of them. The person who commits a sin is guilty of that sin, and God punishes that person for that sin. In fact, it can be read as if David approached it as only a minor administrative matter. WebTranslation Details for 2 Samuel 21:1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. There is more space given to David's flaws than anyone else in the whole Bible. I Samuel 14:52 Now there was fierce war with the Philistines all the days of Saul. We have an easier time identifying with the flawed, but heroic, Lancelot from the legends of King Arthur, because he is a lot more like ushe commits sin; he has faults. Joshua did try to make lemonade out of his lemons. September 01 2013 Skeptic turned believer, Catholic, father of 3, ABC/DTS graduate, guitar music ministry Baptist church. Just tell me and I will do it for you.. 2 Samuel 21:2 At this, David summoned the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." He will not relent. With all the recent rebellions, he was probably worried that his alliances were going to fail, because he may have appeared to weaken. But, he did not. At the request of the Gibeonites themselves, seven sons of Saul were executed ( II Sam. It is not pretty when we allow the people of the land to dictate to us. Or as the Things were going wrong. Christ says, Luke 21:34-35 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. Joshua kept his word to the Gibeonites even when it was inconvenient. This would be in the spring during or after the Days of Unleavened Bread. Lets read about David avenging the Gibeonites in 2 Samuel 21:1-14: 1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year. But certainly, David was. He was distracted by the cares of this world, by the pulls of this, that, and the other thing, and so he gives in and compromises with the people of the land. The Gibeonites deceived Israel, but God's people had really deceived themselves. How many died in bar-fights? And David sought the face of the Lord. The Bible barely alludes to the king's mad scheme, but we know that Saul's plot miserably failed. As mentioned earlier, there was the rebellion of Absalom. 1. It was common knowledge. It causes a problem in the way that the next generation is formed. So Joshua made peace with them, and made a covenant with them to let them live; and the rulers of the congregation swore to them. Had him over to the palace a few times." The Israelites had promised not to It says a bit later that somebody told him what that woman was doing out there protecting the bodies of the slain men of Saul's house for the past six months and it was as though he said, "Oh really? They may not have been involved at all, depending on how early in Saul's reign this event took place. Yet, the Bible specifically says in Hebrews 4:15 that He was without sin. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.". Fifty years ago was 1957. This was obviously later in his life and reign. It is the time of the beginning of the barley harvest. Saul's bones are still in Jabesh-Gilead. 2Samuel 21:1, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.. And it would have been done quickly and easily. And David was told what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. Saul agreed, and off he went. They were the five sons of Merab, Saul's daughter. See? That would be a town in Benjamin just north of Jerusalem. And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the land yield their fruit. Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! Israel had to live with those consequences for years to come. ", "She's been doing that for six months? I think that this was a test from God, and David failed spectacularly, except in keeping his promise to Jonathan. God is not bloodthirsty, but He had told them what to do. They were probably in middle age, 45-60. He attempted the genocide of But, the big thing was that he did not consult God about what he should do about it. I think he was very low. Is there something I'm missing? How far away was Gilgal from Gibeon? And David was told what Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, the concubine of Saul, had done. Saul committed a great crime against Gibeon and the Gibeonites. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). WebThe Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for this shortage, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 Samuel 21:1 American Standard Version (ASV) 1 And there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David sought the face of Jehovah. Pagan cultures were killed because they were pagan cultures and they were making war on Gods people. fit into Creation? Ezekiel 18:19-20 Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' Certainly, after three years you would. Back to the Gibeonitesmost people probably did not remember it. He had to sit there and judge people with all the little things they constantly brought up to him that seemed to need his decision on. We can't withstand them. It was as if David earlier said, "Let's just get this out of the way. II Samuel 21:8-9 So the king took Armoni and Mephibosheth, the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite; and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them on the hill before the LORD. The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a 21:2, NIV).2 Saul did this in his zeal for Israel and Judah. So for nationalistic reasons Saul was guilty of attempted genocide. Something is wrong. How many rebellions were there? What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." Is that what happened?" In their poverty and slavery the bowed but ever proud Gibeonites refused financial and other forms of compensation for the attempted genocide on their tribe. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Even so, maybe there were even worse problems, perhaps, and David was blind to them for three years. Saul and the Pharisees persecuted and killed the Christians, The sons of King Saul were killed as a result of this attempted genocide, The non-Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem were destroyed in AD70 Gods judgment on them for murdering his son and doubtless, the early Christians. Moreover, the Gibeonites who survived remembered, and they wanted blood when they were asked. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. David then goes to Gibeonites and asked to make amends. The two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul ( v.8 ) There is no record in the Bible of Saul killing Gibeonites. He does not seem to have asked the priest who would know the law the best to find out what Scripture said about situations like this. Because of what had been going on, all the turmoil in this life and the kingdom, David was not spiritually prepared to face it. Other people do not carry the guilt for that person's sin. All answers are REVIEWED and MODERATED. ", Or even after two years. Joshua 9:25-27 "And now, here we are, in your hands; do with us as it seems good and right to do to us." These are the two hints. 0 responses One other thing: Samuel said that God is not going to go back on His word. The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, and saves such as have a contrite spirit. Therefore, one of the first things that Joshua and the Israelites do is they allow a big problem to linger in their midst. They did what is recalled in verses 3 through 6 above. Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. It does not require at all times that a person guilty of bloodshed die. And, it certainly does not record that David took this to God for His solution to it. If people grow up in a society and culture that does not have God at their beck and call, they do whatever they wantwhatever comes naturally. He went after a people that God did not want exterminated anymore. 1. But, the others were Saul's grandsons. He got a little weird, throwing spears at David (and Jonathan too, once). They engaged in battle, and Israel won, but the people and king Saul said, "Look at all this nice livestock! WebWhen God called Saul to be king, Israel was on the verge of collapse. Such a shame to destroy it all! This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. [And the answer is] Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. This cultural thing about wanting our heroes flawed is so deeply ingrained in us that we cannot imagine anyone going through life without sin. Notice the timing and the manner of the execution. The children of Israel gathered and went across the Jordan River, and set up camp at Gilgal. There are things like destruction for their sin, and the family takes that long to recover from that destruction. This is in the second commandment. And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. HERALDS OF HOLOCAUST So he did to them, and delivered them out of the hand of the children of Israel, so that they did not kill them. But, they like the dark one because he is moody, and doing things not for quite the right reasons. David may have begun to think about this now, "What is going on here? And King David rolled over and let this happen. They wanted the God of Israel to take it in the eye. If we were reading this quickly, and not really thinking about it, and not understanding God's own character, we might think that this says that God allows the guilt of sin to pass down three or four generations. And Samuel says, "See? We have to understand that the people of the land represent the things we need to overcomeour human nature and our problems; the world and its pulls to its ways; and Satan and all the ways that he tries to manipulate us. Eisenhower was still in office. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Saul became a bit strange in the head after this, if you will remember. I think he was looking at Adonijah and Solomon, and seeing the positioning for the throne, and he just wanted to throw up his handsflee like some bird (Psalm 139). This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. So they thought, "Hmm. Some unfinished business here needs to be taken care of. I haven't been keeping up on things. When this righteous ruler turned to God, the Lord showed him that arrogant error of his predecessor. For many today, this time period is ancient history. The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. We would like to make a covenant with you.". That is the background on the Gibeonites, and their relationship with Israel. And the king said, "I will give them.". Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. He sees the hearts of men and the hidden actions of men. So, it is very likely that these men were murdered both as retribution and as sacrifices to some pagan god to spite the God of the Bible, and therefore, Israel. We have all followed in the same way of life as our first parents Adam and Eve. He was endangering the whole army by being out there, an old man trying to fight like a young man. God sees behind the scenes. One of them toward the end of this list is King David. And they went to Joshua, to the camp at Gilgal, and said to him and to the men of Israel, "We have come from a far country; now therefore, make a covenant with us. The people of the land stand for our spiritual enemiesour human nature, this world, and Satan the Devil. Therefore, there was a different system of justice than what the Gentiles were used to. Later, during a wasting famine, David, attempting a political rather than a righteous solution, yielded to the Gibeonites' request that descendants of Saul be hanged to avenge the slaughter. They were probably innocent of this particular crime. Also, they were hanged on the hill before the Lord. It springs out when you are not ready. God is just. Evidently, this is what Saul and most of his family was like, except Jonathan. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." King David was compelled to hand over his own people to the power of Israel's ongoing enemies. This has become known as the "eye for an eye principle." Jeiel, Sauls great-grandfather, was the progenitor of the Gibeonites ( 1 Chron 8:29-33; 9:35-39 ), so Saul slaughtered his own relatives! THE STORY OF THE GIBEONITES - The Gibeonites remained enemies and aliens to the household of God forever after. Report What have they done? Let me ask God about this. In Rizpahs case, her husband, King Saul, broke his promise that the Israelites would spare the Gibeonites in battle; he ordered the Israelites to annihilate them. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?" Why was Satan so effective in influencing the actions of Eve? The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. However there is nothing in the text that indicates he did this. Why is it just now that you are waking up to this? There is no biblical account of this escapade of Saul and his house against Gibeon. Why does the Bible say David spared Mephibosheth then offered him to the Gibeonites to be killed? God extends blessings far farther into the future than He does the curses. And the LORD answered, It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, In addition, his own soldiers had to tell him, "David, you just don't have it anymore. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." And the king said, "I will give them." Jonathan. After 7-10 years of war, David has solidified his empire Mar 2, 2022. he put the Gibeonites to death. So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Hearing that Joshua was camped in their general neighborhood, after his devastating defeat of the strategic cities of Jericho and Ai, the Gibeonites sent a delegation to him at nearby Gilgal. During Davids reign, the people of Gibeon demanded that all of Sauls children be put to death so as to atone for a severe famine. Joshua realized he had been deceived, but he kept the letter of his covenant with the Gibeonites to let them live; however, he cursed and enslaved them as woodcutters and water-carriers. Saul later pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. WebAnd the Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for the famine, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 (The Gibeonites were not Israelites. The stories of such people like Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, and on through the chapter give us hope that like them we can overcome and be assured of entering the Kingdom of God. According to a May 2007 George Barna Poll, 63% of Americans, mostly professing Christians, believe that Jesus sinned during His physical life! There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to.

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